2.141 Scaling Without Chaos: Hire Early, Own Outcomes and Align on Purpose (with Andrew McVeigh)

Rapid growth can make everything noisier. In this conversation, Karen Kirton and guest Andrew McVeigh, Managing Partner of Remara, unpack practical ways to scale without chaos — from hiring earlier than feels comfortable, to moving from “all hands” to clear ownership, setting simple rhythms for communication, and using a one-sentence purpose to align teams and investors. 

In today’s episode, you’ll learn: 

• When to hire (and the signals you’ve already waited too long) 
• Why part-time patch ups often fail when the scope is almost full time 
• How to make ownership visible and review the right leading indicators 
• Simple comms rhythms that scale: short, frequent, predictable 
• What great leaders do differently as headcount grows 
• How a usable purpose guides decisions, aligns language and builds pride 

Make sure to subscribe to stay updated with new releases on Mondays!
 
Visit https://www.amplifyhr.com.au/ for more insights and resources.  

Also Mentioned in This Episode: 

https://remara.com/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-mcveigh-07346255/

Get our free eBook packed with practical strategies to attract, engage, and retain top talent. Perfect for business owners and leaders focused on building a thriving team. Download it at amplifyhr.com.au/downloadable/find-grow-keep

Transcript

Karen Kirton   0:03
welcome, Andrew. 
Andrew McVeigh   0:14
Welcome, Karen. Thanks for having me. 
Karen Kirton   0:16
You're welcome. It's great to have you on today and I wanted to start off talking a little bit about Remara, which has grown quite rapidly over the past 18 months. So could you tell us a bit more about that and what has the experience been like from a people and culture perspective? 
Andrew McVeigh   0:36 
Yeah, certainly. So the business has grown grown quite dramatically. So we've pretty much more than doubled in terms of assets under management over the last 18 months. That's presented some fairly unique challenges with that. We've had almost a three times increase in our total workforce, so. What we what we had was essentially a platform that was scaling very, very quickly and has continued to scale very quickly. What it's meant is we've needed to find and identify roles that we've probably brought on some roles a little bit early, some roles, a little bit late compared to where we should have brought them on, I think. 
I think one of the biggest learnings and one of the biggest challenges has been is as we've really built the platform, particularly in the first six to nine months of of of the last journey we've been on, we've probably brought people on later than what we should have. So we probably thought well, we'll hire a part-time person because the role isn't at full scale yet. 
Or we'll just wait another two or three months until we kind of build a little bit more capacity and then bring somebody on. I think what we've learned and what I've taken from from that early period is you can't really do that and expect that person to then succeed in a role if you bring them in. 
Particularly something on a part-time role or or or a structure like that where you know effectively you're hiring for what you've got now, but you're going through hyper scale. So what you've got in six months time is not representative of what you hired the person to do and you know the workload has changed, the complexity has changed. 
Or even the organisation has changed in terms of of, you know, pivoted in in terms of focus or a certain area. So I think one of the challenges for us has been ensuring we stay ahead of the the skill set that we need. 
Ensuring we stay ahead of the the planning of workload skill set, matching that together and that's something that we've probably worked a lot on over the last six to nine months of of the 18 month journey which is now starting to really come to fruition where? 
Starting to do exactly that. Hire people, probably in a slightly in advance of the full role being there or a full full time role being there. Look into upscale in terms of a few more senior people throughout the organisation. 
And really starting to look to try and embed culture systems process and also a standard level of of operating throughout the organisation. So there's definitely been some challenges and it's it's been a pretty substantial evolution for us over that 18 month journey. 
And I think as we start to look back on it now, there's some really, really strong learnings. As I said in and around the the people component in terms of getting the right mix early, not trying to, you know, hire a part time role when when it could be or should be probably a full time role. 
And also not waiting too long to hire somebody thinking or being concerned that I might not be 100% full time role now even though you know that you know in two or three months time it will be probably being a little bit cheap on on headcount and and you know human capital from that perspective. 

 
Karen Kirton   3:56
Yeah, it's always hard, right? Because people want to get the revenue in first, but it's hard to get the revenue in first if you don't have the people delivering. So, but there's certain sort of like tools or checklists or triggers that you discovered that actually that that's the bit that we hire before the need. 
Andrew McVeigh   4:02 
It is, yeah. 
It is. 
It's a look that's a really good question. I think certain parts of our business we were when we were smaller, we could do a little bit more all of ourselves. So everyone could take a little bit more of their role and do a little bit more and and that could probably. 
Assist us to get to where we needed on on, you know, say a a fund structure or an administrative component or, you know, even running a A, you know one of our our construction lending books and and I think as we've scaled through that platform we've then now started to realise. 
You need. You don't have the ability to just everybody chip in and get it done because the roles become a much more specialised and it becomes a deeper level of knowledge that you ultimately need. So we're at a position now where we've kind of worked our way through that transition. 

 And you're pretty much at the back end of it now it's been, you know, we've ran the platform pretty hard as a result of that. And you know we've kind of had, you know, some people enjoy that. Some people probably not as much enjoy that programme. 
But I think what we've really learned now is we've got to that size and scale where the workload justifies dedicated people with dedicated skills and experiences. And because of what we do holistically as a group, we've got very niche skills. 
And starting to get the right professionals in the right roles is really, really critical. Give them enough room to kind of build their own function, which is kind of, you know, the next challenge for us is having multiple functions like that all built at the same time. 

And trying to ensure that they they all talk to each other and they all are consistent in terms of their approach and things don't fall through the cracks. So there's, you know, there's there's teething problems as there always is. But I think that's one of the the the next challenges that we're kind of you know starting to face is how we continue that. 
Scalability of the platform where you have more segregated teams and ensuring those teams and now talking to each other and this level and standard that's been set in the organisation is maintained across each of those individual teams. 

 
Karen Kirton   6:28 
 
Yeah, absolutely. And you know the the world that you work in, in investment is known for being pretty fast paced, pretty high pressure. You talked about culture before. So you know, how do you intentionally create that culture where people still feel supported and and connected even when they're in those specialisations and they're in those teams? 

What have you started to do or think about in that respect? 

Andrew McVeigh   6:48 
Yeah. 
Well, I I think finding the right senior leaders within the organisation is critical and yeah, the approach that we take, it's, it's it's kind of bifurcated on level of experience because I have found particularly now as you bring younger people into the organisation. 
They've generally had very different experiences, so there's been more work from home. They've gone through a COVID period where there probably hasn't been as much training and development, certainly not as much as what was around when I was first starting my career. So I think what we focused on is you're trying to. 
To to be able to explain to more junior members of staff who are contributing how they're contributing to the business, how they're contributing to the growth and to to the overall, you know, mission statement of the business, like what are we, what are, what are we trying to achieve and how are they contributing to that to that achievement. 
I find that connection for for younger guys kind of 35 and under is is pretty critical. It's something that they're looking for as you start to get more you know, senior operators who have been in and around the workforce for 15 years plus it's a slightly different conversation, it's. 

More around giving them something to run where they can make it theirs, and providing the guardrails and foundation and support network around that from a resourcing perspective is critical, but making sure that they can still make it their own. 
Again, because they want to be able to learn from, well, they want to be able to implement something based on what they've learned through through their journey. They've seen a lot. They've gone through a lot of different experiences, and generally everybody has a excuse me. 
Generally, everybody's got a a view as to how they want to manage people, manage process, manage their their specific area, giving them enough room to be able to do that but still maintain an overarching culture of of kind of high performance is pretty critical. How we do that is really kind of. 
Segmenting the the workforce out and the the team out into different levels of experience and and, you know, adapting some of our styles to and and you know level of interaction across each of those different age groups because you know it's not a one size fits all, it can't be. 

Karen Kirton   9:23 
Yeah, yeah. And I, I like that you've already recognised that 'cause. That could take some businesses years and years and years to to work that out. They just get frustrated and say, why is this, you know, 25 year old always talking to me about feedback and development. You know, why can't they just get on with it so. 

So it's good you you've already you've joined those dots and and know the next step. 

Andrew McVeigh   9:45
Well, I can see the dots. I might not have joined all the dots, but I can at least see them. 
Karen Kirton   9:50
You know they're there. One of the things that I saw is as a brand, you talk about a more rewarding returns. So yeah, that philosophy, how does that translate internally? So how do you make working for you more rewarding as well as well As for Your investors. 
Andrew McVeigh   10:08 
Well, I think it comes down to the ability to be able to explain why we do what we do and have something that people can believe in and feel comfortable that that they align with. So yeah, internally when we start talking about the investment side of our business. 
We we don't use the the more rewarding return. What we actually talk about internally is we're managing people's life savings. So we don't know whether that's you know 10,000 dollars, $100,000 million dollars. We don't know how long it took that person to earn that. So we're going to treat that with the utmost respect. When you start to talk. 
And there is internal discussion around the responsibility that comes from that. Regardless, people, regardless of of their position and they're they're within the team or their skill level, they they take start to take that seriously, right. So it's a, it's a bit of a common cause as to what we're working for and why we're why we're there. 
Of what we're doing and it also creates or roots the organisation into a key customer service mantra that we've got in terms of looking after the investor and ensuring that they get good strong service on the basis of tying back to well a relatable. 

Topic or a relatable outcome, or a relatable achievement where again, it's not. We're not just dealing with family offices or institutional investors where people go. I can't relate. Someone who can invest 25 billion bucks. It's 10 grand for retail. It's, it's family office, it's institutional, it's Everybody. And that's been, you know, the the foundation of the investment platform. We've wanted to be able to ensure institutional investors and retail investors can access the same opportunities. 
Consistent return profile, consistent structure, consistent covenants, consistent legal documents and benefits kind of underpin everything that we do and that's a very strong mantra internally within our organisation that you know we are the, the what, the work that we're doing. It has an impact on. 
On every one of our customers day in, day out and that's the driving forces to what we do. So you're starting to talk about that and being very open about that being our mission and not to be honest, not putting a whole bunch of buzzwords around it, putting it in really. 
Clear common language that everybody understands. I think that is has done a pretty strong job in terms of aligning everybody in terms of that that outcome and that that has driven a lot in terms of your people going above and beyond like some of our sales guys or investor relations guys going. 
And above and beyond, definitely the registry guys at certain points have done that and you start to see it in terms of trustpilot reviews, you start to see it in terms of, you know, roughly 35% of new investors are referrals, which from an advocacy perspective is huge. 
For an investment firm, so from our perspective, those are the tangible outcomes that we're starting to see from just building a really simple mantra that everybody can kind of understand and adopt and is rooted in what we want to deliver, which is good, strong investor service or customer service. 

Karen Kirton   13:15
Yeah, I love that I I worked many years ago for an electricity company, and if you asked any of the staff there was over 3000 staff. If you asked them what's the purpose of the organisation. Everybody said to keep the lights on, but of course they brought in, you know, consultants that came up with this three paragraph. That inferred care and support and trust, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah. 
Andrew McVeigh   14:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think I think that's the ability to be able to disseminate all of that mumbo jumbo into two or three, easy to understand words that no matter your education level, no matter your experience level, no matter your your level within the organisation, it means pretty much the same to everybody.
I think that's that's the key to be able to come up with the right kind of mission and, you know, keep the lights on is a really good one because that is your job, right? And   
Karen Kirton   14:36
That's that was the job. If you do nothing else as an electricity company, you just got to get the lights on. 
Andrew McVeigh   14:43
Correct. And it's it's pretty simple, but it's pretty important. 
Karen Kirton   14:46 
Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned consistency as well before. And I think that, you know, consistency, I talk about this a lot with culture is that it really is the one underpinning component. And so of course part of that is how do we get, you know, leaders to to be consistent. And I know that you recently launched a mentoring programme where you. 

Paired staff with leadership team members. So can you talk to us about that? What inspired that and and what results have you seen so far? 

Andrew McVeigh   15:13 
So that's something that I've done at prior organisations, so when I was at Brookfield asset Management, we had a programme very, very similar to that. It worked really, really well. It's pretty critical to get the right manager. 
And the right employee and the right manager is someone who, you know has probably a slant towards helping people understand and. And they've got to be really accepting of that role because it's a pretty important role. But what works well from it is if you can find the right managers who have the right. 

Your approach to that and have the ability to be able to again take probably more complicated concepts and disseminate them into, you know a few key frameworks or or thought processes it helps. 
Team members develop their thinking, and yeah, everybody approaches things differently. But what I have found through my journey and doing this now, multiple organisations, is assisting people with a thought framework process. 
Helps because it starts to root them into a position of thinking through how they got to their position. What did they consider? What haven't they considered over time? Because it takes time in terms of doing that. But over time they've got the ability then to be able to sit back and go. Well, actually, I haven't considered this. 

Haven't considered this and they naturally will start to implement that within their decision framework process, so I like it on the basis that it creates, not groupthink. It certainly doesn't create groupthink, but it means that when people have an opinion. 

It's well thought through, and they're putting their skewers to, you know, everything they've seen up until that point until they say whatever they say. So their life experiences, their school experiences, their family experiences, their prior work experiences, what they've did over the last 2-3 weeks, everything they've learned to this point. 
They're putting that skew on it, but they've gone through a fairly consistent process to think through in a consistent way and everybody else within the room has started to do that. That's how I think you get ultimately better decisions, not because everybody's going through this, the the OR everybody has the same thought. It's everybody goes through a similar. 

Process and all that's adapting is their life experiences. To be able to come up. And yeah, that's that's how I I think or I've seen work really well in the past processes where you get some really good outcomes and really good ideas and people get challenged through that process. But. 

You know, I think having a fairly consistent framework means that it starts to break down the barriers of, you know, potential conflict and things like that. And people feel a lot more comfortable in terms of of contributing because they actually have gone through a framework. And then if you ask them to explain it. 
Can go through in detail about how they got there and what they considered, and I think as you start to have groups of people who have those conversations, it starts to become a very cohesive team and a very cohesive environment because people see that, that, that others within that group have considered things that they haven't considered because they haven't had. 
That experience and you start to it starts to break down the well I'm right, because I've done this, it's into OK. I hadn't considered that. That's interesting. And you add that to your framework and you kind of get I think you get to better outcomes. 

In in a in a manner that has less potential for conflict. 

Karen Kirton   18:49 
 
Yeah, it's really more of a mindset development, isn't it? Yeah. Just trying to get that consistency in terms of what our mindset is and you know, and I know that leadership development is quite a a key focus for you. So you know as a leader yourself, how do you help others to manage their own challenges in terms? 

Some growth communication decision making. Do you have a a way that you you tend to do that best? 

Andrew McVeigh   19:14 
Yeah. 
To be honest, there's a few different ways. One way I do like is the ability to kind of step back and let them make their own mistakes and their own failings in a somewhat controlled environment. 

Because I think for you to learn like my, the way I've learned through my career has been a lot of trial and error, a lot of mistakes. And I think, yeah, the ability to be able to go through that and not not lose confidence. 
To be able to have the A persistent and resilient approach to things I think is one of the key things that I probably don't see as much of in younger staff members as what I used to. You know, particularly pre COVID I think you know that's probably one of the and and the more I talk to people out. 

Side of our organisation. The more I talk to recruiters, headhunters that is just a consistent theme everywhere and and you know the level of of perseverance and resilience for more junior staff members is probably not something that it's something that's degraded. 
Particularly since COVID, so you know a lot of what I try to do is is allow them to make mistakes, give them a slightly safer environment to be able to do that knowing that. 
If something is about to really break like you know where it actually causes issues for the organisation, I kind of step in and and help at that point. But outside of that, like give them the ability to learn what you'll find out of that process and and what I found out of that process is it's it's hugely informative in terms. 
Preserve the person's thought, process, their resilience, their perseverance. They start to figure out where they kind of fit in and what I mean by that is not everybody wants to be a senior leader. 
Some people wanna be a senior leader until they figure out what it takes to be a senior leader and and you know the best way to do it is to experience some of that stuff and figure out whether you like it or you don't. 

Karen Kirton   21:21
Very true. 
Andrew McVeigh   21:30
And I think yeah, to be honest, it's it's then having just a direct conversation of, you know, you need to be able to do this, you need to be able to have these conversations, you need to be able to, you know, deal with ambiguity. You're not always going to know the answer, and you're going to have five people looking up to you wanting the answer. So if you're uncomfortable with that, then.
Yeah, you've either got to figure out whether you can change and you can get comfortable or you probably need to realign. You know, whether you actually want to be a senior leader or a leader. And I think, yeah, it's probably more conversations around if you're not happy doing what you're doing.
Even if you are.
Failing or facing challenges. If you're not happy, it's probably a pretty good indication that you're doing something you don't want to be doing. 
Karen Kirton   22:14 
Yeah, that's true. I think that people naturally assume that they want to keep going up the ladder and and manage people. And some people just shouldn't because it's just it's not their strength that drains their energy completely. 

And so try to find those opportunities where people can trial it without being one can can be difficult, but I understand that you do role shadowing and some other things in the the organisation, yeah. 

Andrew McVeigh   22:39 
We do, we do, we do it. It's it's something new that we've started to bring in. So again, it's something that that I used a lot of Brookfield. We'd have a process where a junior member of the finance team would shadow me as I was kind of CFO in my, in my role for a day kind of attend all the meetings. 
All the discussions, all the phone calls and kind of see the level of diversity of stuff that I had. I had to deal with at that point in time. It's really good in terms of providing people, you know, oversight and and I think, you know, one of the challenges too way is. 
It's easy for me to sit there and say how does how does someone not consider this? But I have a raft of information that other people are not don't have access to and and don't have. Yeah, the the ability to to, I suppose, don't have don't have access to so don't have knowledge of. 
And vice versa, it's easy for a team member who doesn't have access to all the stuff I do going well. Why would you make that decision? So it it provides probably a little bit more opportunity for people to get different views. 
And particularly for junior staff members to be able to see, OK, if you do want to progress and you do want to become a leader and and particularly you know more senior leaders, you've got to be able to go from multiple topics in a day, not over the course of a week, not, you know, from one day to the next like intraday from one hour. 

And yeah, again, you you can't always take the horse to water and and force it to drink. Some people take it, see it and love it. Other people kind of shy back and go. I'm not sure I actually want that. But you know what? That's actually a good thing because they kind of have more of a knowledge of what they want and what they want to achieve themselves. 

Karen Kirton   24:30
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned that you've grown a lot in 80 months, not a long period. So the pressure builds as well as I'm sure it has with you. So how do you, you know, look after your own well being, but also that of your your team and and their engagement when things are going that quickly? 
Andrew McVeigh   24:58 
Yeah, it's a good question. I think you know for myself, I try to find periods of my day, which generally are the very first periods of the day like 5:00 AM going for a walk. No phone, do not check emails until I kind of get into the office. 
Trying to really have the start of the day where I'm not rushed, so focused on you know what I need to think about it. Whatever that point in time is, you know, nice quiet walk period of time on my own. 
And then not looking at my phone, not looking at emails until I'm in the office because you know, you start doing that and I'll be honest, I didn't always used to do that. I used to be the the almost exact opposite of that. As soon as I was waking up, I was on my phone checking what, who, who sent me emails, what would happen, you know what text I got, what the news was, what the. 
The markets did, and that that wasn't a great scenario and I think you know, since implementing that and I'll be honest, that's only something I've implemented in the last kind of nine months. It's certainly helped to, you know, readjust my focus and just calm. 

My process like I'm naturally a pretty intensive person anyway, so it it's just kind of helped take a little bit of the edge off that intensity to start with because it's given me the time to kind of sit back and get my thoughts right to start the day and and then kind of hit the day hard. 

In terms of of team members, it's probably just recognising, you know, we don't, we don't have a culture of people working back really late at night like we're not in investment banks, so you know. 
I'll might leave at 7:00, and yeah, the office is empty, which is good. It's it's, you know, we don't have a big culture. If you have to work on the weekends. So the work life balance in, in my opinion is is compared to again what I've experienced in my life in my career. 
Is is acceptable? But I think that's that's kind of the key attribute around it is, you know having the the conversation with team leaders, making sure that their teams are comfortable with what they're doing and it's it's trying to understand the individual personalities of the people. 

Some people will be, you know, will have, you know, high octane will wanna push. Wanna drive? Wanna work extra hours? Have no problem about it be you know very focused on their career others will will have you know roles that are key roles but they're more roles that are. 
You know, nine to five based they they play key positions, they make sure stuff keeps going in the background and that's just as important as someone who's, you know, working longer hours or you know generating origination deals or something like that. 

Because you can't have a business of just one type of person and one type of skill set. So I think, you know, having a, having a focus on each individual individual person's personality and and try to to be able to pick when. 
Someone might be under the pump a bit too much, or like you can generally see if someone's a little stressed and it's, you know, the benefit that I've got is I don't work with everybody directly, but if you walk around and you kind of just. 

Take a little bit of notice. You can kind of see people that that you know either a little bit unhappy or a little bit under pressure or you know they're outside of their comfort zone a little bit too much. 

Karen Kirton   28:45
Yeah. And that's always been one of the criticisms of, you know, hybrid working or working remotely is that you lose that ability to do that. Right, like, especially if you've got people that are earlier on in their Careers and are less likely to be open about how they're feeling at the time. So yeah. 
Andrew McVeigh   28:51 
Yeah. 
Like we, we don't have a we we don't have a work from home policy like our policy is is office based if you need time and you've got stuff at home or you need things outside of of work that you need to deal with during the week that that's fine you can.And you can always work from home. But we for that purpose we we have an office based process. You know our policy is is office based because we are moving in at a fast pace. But I also want people to feel connected you know and I want people to I want to be able to make sure that if people have questions. 

All they need that support around them that they've got that support and I'll be honest, like we, we've missed out on hiring people because we have that policy. I'm not changing that policy. 

Karen Kirton   29:42
Yeah.
And I think that's the thing. As long as you're clear what works for you and your culture, because what works for what business definitely does not work for another. So. 
Andrew McVeigh   29:52 
Yeah. Yep. 
No, that's correct. Yeah. And and even even, you know, individually within team members like the process that we have you know works for some doesn't work for everybody. You know there there is no one size fits all. So the best thing you can do is just try to adapt as much as you possibly can and. 

Yeah, you never get 100% people 100% happy 100% of the time. 

Karen Kirton   30:19
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. My last question is looking back on your journey with Remara so far, what's the one thing that you've learned about building or scaling A-Team or managing people that has really surprised you? 
 
Andrew McVeigh   30:38
Well, that's a good question. 
Karen Kirton   30:40
That's hard to come up with just one? 
Andrew McVeigh   30:42 
No, like it's a. It's a good question. And I think to be honest, it's. 
Yeah, it's, it's. 
It's creating a really simple purpose. 
 
I was surprised about that just in the level in the simplicity of it doesn't mean it's easy coming up with that purpose, and to be honest, that actually took quite a that probably took the most amount of time. 

But I was kind of surprised at the relative simplicity of it and the the level of acceptance throughout the the team of it. And it works universally now that if we talk to, if we have an investor event and we we talk about that, it resonates with. 

Investors. It resonates with staff. It resonates with stakeholders. It like that and it's kind of like a bit of a marketing push but or marketing ploy from that perspective. But it the simplicity of having something that is is. 

The reason why and is so easy to understand and easy to to accept and kind of cuts through all of the noise of all of the different things you need to do, and all the different stakeholders you have and whatnot. 

 was surprised about how accepting that was like I've I've I probably didn't appreciate that when we first kind of came up with it and started to implement it. And I've been surprised about, you know, the level of cut through doesn't mean it always works on every single person all the time. 

Anrew McVeigh   32:22 
But it's it's it's certainly has. It certainly resonates with a a big component part of our workforce and it's done you know a pretty good job or a very good job actually in aligning everybody to a common goal. 

Karen Kirton   32:40
Yeah, I think that's great. You know, Simon Sinek, I'm sure you've read some of his work after you're doing the purpose statement. You know, he says that, you know, people don't buy what you do. They buy. Why you do it and whether that's an employee or it's a client. You know, that that, that why that purpose is, is so, so important. So. So I love that and.And you're quite right, it takes a long time to get there. People don't realise how difficult it is actually coming up with with that purpose, because you need something that's simple. That's short and everyone can remember it, but it's gotta be meaningful and have that emotional connection so. 
Andrew McVeigh   33:07
Yeah.
 
And what's actually like a funny story about that is it just came out one day like it was, I think I was having a conversation with someone, and it just was. We're doing this to manage people's life savings. And it was like, oh, actually, you know what? That's pretty good. 
Karen Kirton   33:20
A light bulb went off. 
Andrew McVeigh   33:33
So I'll I'll, I'll admit I kind of stumbled into that. 
Karen Kirton   33:36
But that's how it happens, though, because it is always in people's heads and it's just it's trying to to get it out. That could be difficult. So look, thank you for joining me. I've really enjoyed the conversation today. If people would like to get in touch with you or learn more about Remara, what's the best way to do that? 
Andrew McVeigh   33:40 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, correct. 
So I do have a a LinkedIn page so you can kind of DM me through that and I'll I'll I'll be able to respond or I think we've got some kind of contact emails on our website and things like that that you could probably go out to outside of LinkedIn. I'm not. 

I'm not on any other social media so. Well, I think we've got company profiles, but I don't run them. So yeah, yeah, LinkedIn DM is probably the best way to contact me, yeah. 

Karen Kirton   34:14
Yeah.
Excellent. And we'll put links to your LinkedIn page and also the company website into the show notes. So so thanks for for joining me today and to those that are listening, if you've received value from this episode, I'd love it if you can leave a rating or review of Apple Podcasts or Spotify. So someone else can also find the episodes. 
Andrew McVeigh   34:27
Perfect. 
Karen Kirton   34:42
Help with their business episodes released on Mondays, so click subscribe and you'll be notified of when that's available. And of course, if you have any feedback, questions or ideas for future episodes, head on over to amplifyhr.com dot AU or connect with me on LinkedIn and we can start a conversation. Thank you so much, Andrew. It's been great to have you.
Today. 
Andrew McVeigh   35:03 
No, thanks, Karen. It's been great. Cheers.